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	<title>Comments on: Debating the GunLoons (Part Tres)</title>
	<link>http://leftrudder.blogsome.com/2007/06/03/debating-the-gunloons-part-tres/</link>
	<description>Always Correct, It's A Gift</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 00:37:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Administrator</title>
		<link>http://leftrudder.blogsome.com/2007/06/03/debating-the-gunloons-part-tres/#comment-27</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jun 2007 07:30:00 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://leftrudder.blogsome.com/2007/06/03/debating-the-gunloons-part-tres/#comment-27</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;Rule #1 - if you can’t fight the statement, fight the source.&lt;/i&gt;

Ted Nugent.  The guy is a racist and has someyhing wrong with him.  Yet, he's offered up as a spokesman and board member of the NRA?

Mr. Bruce: Nugent's racism is well-established, it's not &quot;alleged.&quot;

The issue of  kitchen utensils and steak knives is that they're pretty poor weapons to kill lots of people; there's a reason we send our troops to war with firearms not blenders or egg beaters.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.vpc.org/press/9604nrao.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Tanya Metaksa&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;When NRA lobbying chief Tanya Metaksa was reported to have met Michigan Militia leaders prior to the Oklahoma blast, and that her computer bulletin board posts a bomb recipe, it might have been shocking, but not surprising. NRA officials have a history of making news&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Rule #1 - if you can’t fight the statement, fight the source.</i></p>
	<p>Ted Nugent.  The guy is a racist and has someyhing wrong with him.  Yet, he&#8217;s offered up as a spokesman and board member of the NRA?</p>
	<p>Mr. Bruce: Nugent&#8217;s racism is well-established, it&#8217;s not &#8220;alleged.&#8221;</p>
	<p>The issue of  kitchen utensils and steak knives is that they&#8217;re pretty poor weapons to kill lots of people; there&#8217;s a reason we send our troops to war with firearms not blenders or egg beaters.</p>
	<p><a href="http://www.vpc.org/press/9604nrao.htm" rel="nofollow">Tanya Metaksa</a>:</p>
	<blockquote><p>When NRA lobbying chief Tanya Metaksa was reported to have met Michigan Militia leaders prior to the Oklahoma blast, and that her computer bulletin board posts a bomb recipe, it might have been shocking, but not surprising. NRA officials have a history of making news</p></blockquote>
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		<title>by: Mr. Bruce</title>
		<link>http://leftrudder.blogsome.com/2007/06/03/debating-the-gunloons-part-tres/#comment-26</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2007 18:52:01 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://leftrudder.blogsome.com/2007/06/03/debating-the-gunloons-part-tres/#comment-26</guid>
					<description>Kee-rist. I see why you get banned, JG. But regardless of Nugent's alleged racism, what about the truth of what he said? No one has called for the ban of fertilizer or kitchen utensils or steak knives.

And McVeigh got his info from an NRA online bulletin board?!? Um, got a link for that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Kee-rist. I see why you get banned, JG. But regardless of Nugent&#8217;s alleged racism, what about the truth of what he said? No one has called for the ban of fertilizer or kitchen utensils or steak knives.</p>
	<p>And McVeigh got his info from an NRA online bulletin board?!? Um, got a link for that?
</p>
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		<title>by: k2aggie07</title>
		<link>http://leftrudder.blogsome.com/2007/06/03/debating-the-gunloons-part-tres/#comment-25</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2007 10:21:58 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://leftrudder.blogsome.com/2007/06/03/debating-the-gunloons-part-tres/#comment-25</guid>
					<description>Rule #1 - if you can't fight the statement, fight the source.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Rule #1 - if you can&#8217;t fight the statement, fight the source.
</p>
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		<title>by: Administrator</title>
		<link>http://leftrudder.blogsome.com/2007/06/03/debating-the-gunloons-part-tres/#comment-24</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 07:58:13 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://leftrudder.blogsome.com/2007/06/03/debating-the-gunloons-part-tres/#comment-24</guid>
					<description>Citing Ted Nugent doesn't really help your cause.  Why would you cite a racist?  And let's not forget the fact McVeigh was an NRA member and very likely gleaned the information for making his bomb from an NRA online bulletin board.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Citing Ted Nugent doesn&#8217;t really help your cause.  Why would you cite a racist?  And let&#8217;s not forget the fact McVeigh was an NRA member and very likely gleaned the information for making his bomb from an NRA online bulletin board.
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		<title>by: k2aggie07</title>
		<link>http://leftrudder.blogsome.com/2007/06/03/debating-the-gunloons-part-tres/#comment-23</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jun 2007 21:14:51 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://leftrudder.blogsome.com/2007/06/03/debating-the-gunloons-part-tres/#comment-23</guid>
					<description>And, like I said before, I am accountable for every firearm I buy. That guy who shot people at VA Tech passed a Federal Screening -- he bought the gun legally! So the Federal screening should include history of mental problems. OK. I'm game for that. But why take away MY guns? I'm no nut.

Ted Nugent says it well:
&quot;No one was foolish enough to debate Ryder truck regulations or ammonia nitrate restrictions or a &quot;cult of agriculture fertilizer&quot; following the unabashed evil of Timothy McVeigh's heinous crime against America on that fateful day in Oklahoma City. No one faulted kitchen utensils or other hardware of choice after Jeffrey Dahmer was caught drugging, mutilating, raping, murdering and cannibalizing his victims. Nobody wanted &quot;steak knife control&quot; as they autopsied the dead nurses in Chicago, Illinois, as Richard Speck went on trial for mass murder.&quot;

So what gives?

Nazi's did not round up guns, true -- but the legitimate government had anti gun legislation. It may have prevented the Nazi's from an armed uprising, but it also prevented armed uprising against the Nazi state. Is this an argument for or against gun control? You tell me.

Good things to read:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.jpfo.org/deathgc.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Instances of gun laws killing innocent people.&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.lizmichael.com/racistro.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Connections between gun laws and racism.&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.lewrockwell.com/gregory/gregory134.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Gun laws limiting rights&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>And, like I said before, I am accountable for every firearm I buy. That guy who shot people at VA Tech passed a Federal Screening &#8212; he bought the gun legally! So the Federal screening should include history of mental problems. OK. I&#8217;m game for that. But why take away MY guns? I&#8217;m no nut.</p>
	<p>Ted Nugent says it well:<br />
&#8220;No one was foolish enough to debate Ryder truck regulations or ammonia nitrate restrictions or a &#8220;cult of agriculture fertilizer&#8221; following the unabashed evil of Timothy McVeigh&#8217;s heinous crime against America on that fateful day in Oklahoma City. No one faulted kitchen utensils or other hardware of choice after Jeffrey Dahmer was caught drugging, mutilating, raping, murdering and cannibalizing his victims. Nobody wanted &#8220;steak knife control&#8221; as they autopsied the dead nurses in Chicago, Illinois, as Richard Speck went on trial for mass murder.&#8221;</p>
	<p>So what gives?</p>
	<p>Nazi&#8217;s did not round up guns, true &#8212; but the legitimate government had anti gun legislation. It may have prevented the Nazi&#8217;s from an armed uprising, but it also prevented armed uprising against the Nazi state. Is this an argument for or against gun control? You tell me.</p>
	<p>Good things to read:<br />
<a href="http://www.jpfo.org/deathgc.htm" rel="nofollow">Instances of gun laws killing innocent people.</a><br />
<a href="http://www.lizmichael.com/racistro.htm" rel="nofollow">Connections between gun laws and racism.</a><br />
<a href="http://www.lewrockwell.com/gregory/gregory134.html" rel="nofollow">Gun laws limiting rights</a>
</p>
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		<title>by: Administrator</title>
		<link>http://leftrudder.blogsome.com/2007/06/03/debating-the-gunloons-part-tres/#comment-20</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 11:44:43 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://leftrudder.blogsome.com/2007/06/03/debating-the-gunloons-part-tres/#comment-20</guid>
					<description>k2aggie:  First, your history of Nazi Germany is very wrong. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcnazimyth.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; See cite&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;i&gt;Anyway, licensing and registration would do nothing to avert gun crime. What good does it do to have a license if you’re a maniac with no priors?&lt;/i&gt;

You're trying to make good the enemy of perfect.  Licensing and registration won't solve every problem, but it may solve a good number.  For example, the recent VA Tech shootings.  The fact the shooter had been institutionalized may have prevented his gun purchases. 

&lt;i&gt;Why make it hard for the good people when the bad people are going to continue at the status quo?&lt;/i&gt;

Life is unfair.  Let's not forget many of these so-called 'good people' are good until they decide a gun is a way out of their problems.

Again, I ask: why are gonowners so afraid to be accountable?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>k2aggie:  First, your history of Nazi Germany is very wrong. <a href="http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcnazimyth.html" rel="nofollow"> See cite</a></p>
	<p><i>Anyway, licensing and registration would do nothing to avert gun crime. What good does it do to have a license if you’re a maniac with no priors?</i></p>
	<p>You&#8217;re trying to make good the enemy of perfect.  Licensing and registration won&#8217;t solve every problem, but it may solve a good number.  For example, the recent VA Tech shootings.  The fact the shooter had been institutionalized may have prevented his gun purchases. </p>
	<p><i>Why make it hard for the good people when the bad people are going to continue at the status quo?</i></p>
	<p>Life is unfair.  Let&#8217;s not forget many of these so-called &#8216;good people&#8217; are good until they decide a gun is a way out of their problems.</p>
	<p>Again, I ask: why are gonowners so afraid to be accountable?
</p>
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		<title>by: k2aggie07</title>
		<link>http://leftrudder.blogsome.com/2007/06/03/debating-the-gunloons-part-tres/#comment-19</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 21:28:53 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://leftrudder.blogsome.com/2007/06/03/debating-the-gunloons-part-tres/#comment-19</guid>
					<description>In order to carry a pistol you are required to have a license (in some states -- in many you simply can't carry them at all). Why should you have to license a weapon for home defense? Do you have a license for knives? How about chainsaws? All can be used for nefarious purposes. 

The simplest answer for why I don't want to license, register and insure my weapons is that I really don't want to pay for it. I also don't really trust the government; its part of the reason I don't have a concealed carry license. For one I don't feel like I need to carry; for two, I don't want to be fingerprinted and flagged by the government as a &quot;gun owner&quot;. If someone like you came to power that flag would turn into a &quot;gun loon&quot; and I would be &quot;watched&quot;. 

Paranoid, I know, but unfortunately its happened before -- see Nazi Germany for the most recent example.

Anyway, licensing and registration would do nothing to avert gun crime. What good does it do to have a license if you're a maniac with no priors? These are the situations you've been describing. You'd get the license just as easily as you buy a gun now -- with the same outcomes.

Why make it hard for the good people when the bad people are going to continue at the status quo?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>In order to carry a pistol you are required to have a license (in some states &#8212; in many you simply can&#8217;t carry them at all). Why should you have to license a weapon for home defense? Do you have a license for knives? How about chainsaws? All can be used for nefarious purposes. </p>
	<p>The simplest answer for why I don&#8217;t want to license, register and insure my weapons is that I really don&#8217;t want to pay for it. I also don&#8217;t really trust the government; its part of the reason I don&#8217;t have a concealed carry license. For one I don&#8217;t feel like I need to carry; for two, I don&#8217;t want to be fingerprinted and flagged by the government as a &#8220;gun owner&#8221;. If someone like you came to power that flag would turn into a &#8220;gun loon&#8221; and I would be &#8220;watched&#8221;. </p>
	<p>Paranoid, I know, but unfortunately its happened before &#8212; see Nazi Germany for the most recent example.</p>
	<p>Anyway, licensing and registration would do nothing to avert gun crime. What good does it do to have a license if you&#8217;re a maniac with no priors? These are the situations you&#8217;ve been describing. You&#8217;d get the license just as easily as you buy a gun now &#8212; with the same outcomes.</p>
	<p>Why make it hard for the good people when the bad people are going to continue at the status quo?
</p>
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		<title>by: Administrator</title>
		<link>http://leftrudder.blogsome.com/2007/06/03/debating-the-gunloons-part-tres/#comment-17</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 13:06:25 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://leftrudder.blogsome.com/2007/06/03/debating-the-gunloons-part-tres/#comment-17</guid>
					<description>Make you a deal, k2aggie07, why don't you tell us why you'd be opposed to licensing, registration, and insurance?

I wouldn't have much difficulty with honest, lw-abiding citizens owning certain firearms for hunting/self-defense purposes.  Provided certain requirements are satisfied.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Make you a deal, k2aggie07, why don&#8217;t you tell us why you&#8217;d be opposed to licensing, registration, and insurance?</p>
	<p>I wouldn&#8217;t have much difficulty with honest, lw-abiding citizens owning certain firearms for hunting/self-defense purposes.  Provided certain requirements are satisfied.
</p>
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		<title>by: k2aggie07</title>
		<link>http://leftrudder.blogsome.com/2007/06/03/debating-the-gunloons-part-tres/#comment-10</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 22:55:30 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://leftrudder.blogsome.com/2007/06/03/debating-the-gunloons-part-tres/#comment-10</guid>
					<description>You didn't offer a solution, you just listed a bunch of reasons why I probably shouldn't be allowed to own guns. (Un)fortunately, the federal government takes care of quite a few of those buy running an instant background check every time anyone buys an assault weapon or a pistol. Phew! One crisis averted!

I am not afraid to be accountable for my firearms (plural) at all. I make no secret of my ownership and avid sportsmanship; most, if not all, of my coworkers know I have guns. Many have come to shoot with me. Its a great past time.

So, other than the fact that you don't trust your fellow man, do you have any other reasons why I shouldn't be allowed to carry? Because, incidentally, aside from sporting, that lack of trust is precisely why I do own firearms.

PS Please establish, vice ad hominem attacks, why guns in the hands of honest citizens (a category to which the vast majority belongs) is a bad thing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>You didn&#8217;t offer a solution, you just listed a bunch of reasons why I probably shouldn&#8217;t be allowed to own guns. (Un)fortunately, the federal government takes care of quite a few of those buy running an instant background check every time anyone buys an assault weapon or a pistol. Phew! One crisis averted!</p>
	<p>I am not afraid to be accountable for my firearms (plural) at all. I make no secret of my ownership and avid sportsmanship; most, if not all, of my coworkers know I have guns. Many have come to shoot with me. Its a great past time.</p>
	<p>So, other than the fact that you don&#8217;t trust your fellow man, do you have any other reasons why I shouldn&#8217;t be allowed to carry? Because, incidentally, aside from sporting, that lack of trust is precisely why I do own firearms.</p>
	<p>PS Please establish, vice ad hominem attacks, why guns in the hands of honest citizens (a category to which the vast majority belongs) is a bad thing?
</p>
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		<title>by: Administrator</title>
		<link>http://leftrudder.blogsome.com/2007/06/03/debating-the-gunloons-part-tres/#comment-8</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jun 2007 17:27:48 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://leftrudder.blogsome.com/2007/06/03/debating-the-gunloons-part-tres/#comment-8</guid>
					<description>k2aggie07: I really don't know if you're crazy or not; by all accounts, Tim McVeigh had no criminal record, had served his country in the Army, etc.

What's more important is the fact I don't know if you know which end of a firearm is which; I don't know if you have a substance abuse problem; I don't know if you think you're part of some militia that's waiting the signal to overthrow the country..the list goes on.

Perhaps you are a model citizen.

Why are you afraid to be accountable for your fiream?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>k2aggie07: I really don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;re crazy or not; by all accounts, Tim McVeigh had no criminal record, had served his country in the Army, etc.</p>
	<p>What&#8217;s more important is the fact I don&#8217;t know if you know which end of a firearm is which; I don&#8217;t know if you have a substance abuse problem; I don&#8217;t know if you think you&#8217;re part of some militia that&#8217;s waiting the signal to overthrow the country..the list goes on.</p>
	<p>Perhaps you are a model citizen.</p>
	<p>Why are you afraid to be accountable for your fiream?
</p>
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