GunFacts Hasn’t Any (2)
Today, we dispense with some really low-hanging fruit from GunFacts. Pgs. 2-3:
Myth: People with concealed weapons permits will commit crimes
This is pretty unfortunate since most of the author’s ‘facts’ do, indeed, point out that CCW permit holders commit crimes. Logically, all I would have to do to debunk this is cite one instance where a CCW permit holder has committed a crime.
I think the notion the author was trying for was to assert CCW permit holders commit fewer crimes than the public as a whole.
Anyway, into the breech:
Fact: The results for the first 30 states that passed “shallissue”
laws for concealed carry permits are similar. Here are some specific cases:
Author compares permits granted with permits revoked in FL, VA, and AZ. The data is cherry-picked: FL’s data is from Oct 87-Jan 99, VA’s is from 1995 only, and AZ’s is from 1994 thru 1998. To say the results are “similar” using different time periods is inaccurate to say the least. Additionally, it is not true FL, VA, and AZ have similar laws; that, too, invalidates any claim to similar results. Finally, there appears to be a problem with the author’s FL ‘facts’ WRT revoked permits. Current FL stats (Oct 87 thru Nov 07) for the number of revoked permits is 4113. Author claims there were only 109 for the period Oct 87-Jan 99. This means there were 4004 revocations in the period Jan 99 thru Nov 07. What happened? The answer isn’t there were more permits; in the period cited by the author, there were 551,000 permits issued. Recent FL DOACS data says 1,297,000 have been issued Oct 87 thru Nov 07). Either the author has misread his stats or FL changed its laws in 1999 or CCW permit holders have become more criminal.
Fact: People with concealed carry permits are:9
• 5.7 times less likely to be arrested for violent offenses than the general public
• 13.5 times less likely to be arrested for non-violent offenses than the general public
This ‘fact’ comes from: ‘William Sturdevant, unpublished study reported in August 2000 edition of America’s 1st Freedom’
America’s 1st Freedom is an NRA magazine. How does an “unpublished” study get to be “reported” in a magazine? Chances are this cite is apocryphal.
Fact: In Texas, citizens with concealed carry permits are 14 times less likely to commit a crime. They are also five times less likely to commit a violent crime.10
Author cites ‘10 Texas Department of Public Safety and the U.S. Census Bureau, reported in San Antonio Express-News, September, 2000′. It is very likely an apocryphal cite. The cite does not reference a time period. The TX DPS has very good stats on CCW demographics but doesn’t list crimes. US Census Bureau data would be impossible to cross-reference.
Fact: Even gun control organizations agree it is a non-problem, as in Texas – “because there haven’t been Wild West shootouts in the streets”.11
Out of context. Author cites ‘11 Nina Butts, Texans Against Gun Violence, Dallas Morning News, August 10, 2000.’ The Dallas Morning News article quotes Butts within the context of public debate over CCW laws–not whether CCW permit holders are committing crime.
Fact: Of 14,000 CCW licensees in Oregon, only 4 (0.03%) were convicted of the criminal (not necessarily violent) use or possession of a firearm.
Author does not provide cite or time reference. There is an article in the Portland Tribune (Oct 21, 2005) that quotes a Portland sheriff saying Portland “police officers confiscate about 850 handguns a year, almost all of them from people who do not have permits. Maybe three times a year does a weapon come in confiscated from somebody who actually had a permit.”
Obviously, a fabricated ‘fact.’
Fact: In Florida, a state that has allowed concealed carry since late 1987, you are twice as likely to be attacked by an alligator as by a person with a concealed carry permit.12
Author cite: ‘12 Florida Department of State, “Concealed Weapons/Firearms License Statistical Report”, 1998 – Florida Game andFresh Water Fish Commission, December 1998′
Neither report says any such thing. In researching this ‘fact,’ a Google search will often attribute this ‘fact’ to former FL SoS, Sandra Mortha, in a ‘memo.’ Siad memo does not exist.
Having a CCW License suspended or revoked, does not mean the license holder commited a crime. As you are infering above.
Licenses can be suspended or revoked, if the license holder dies, or moves out of the state issuing the license.
Comment by JDFAR — December 20, 2007 @ 10:49 am
JDFAR: I use the same metrics as the author.
………….
And license revocation is not when a holder dies or moves. Revocation means the license is taken away for some infraction or violation which likely involves criminal behavior.
Comment by Administrator — December 20, 2007 @ 4:21 pm
That so, you really need to stay on your meds,
I know for a fact in Ohio if you die, or move out of the state the Sheriff will revoke your license. Having recently lived there.
So dying or mooving are now crimes?
Comment by JDFAR — December 20, 2007 @ 4:57 pm
In Texas you can lose your ccw for “printing”
Comment by JDFAR — December 20, 2007 @ 6:31 pm
JDFAR: Unfortunately ffor your argument, we were addressing FL CCW laws. Under FL laws, a permit is revoked because of a violation and/or crime. People who move or die off in FL are counted in the FL DOACs as having their permits become inactive.
………..
I’d also suggest you read OH’s CCW laws a bit more carefully. Permit revocation because of someone moving or dying is at the discretion of the issuing Peace Officer. Having a permit revoked because a CCW permit holder commits a crime isn’t.
Comment by Administrator — December 21, 2007 @ 6:36 pm
(10) A license issued under this section shall be suspended or revoked pursuant to chapter 120 if the licensee:
(a) Is found to be ineligible under the criteria set forth in subsection (2);
(b) Develops or sustains a physical infirmity which prevents the safe handling of a weapon or firearm;
(c) Is convicted of a felony which would make the licensee ineligible to possess a firearm pursuant to s. 790.23;
(d) Is found guilty of a crime under the provisions of chapter 893, or similar laws of any other state, relating to controlled substances;
(e) Is committed as a substance abuser under chapter 397, or is deemed a habitual offender under s. 856.011(3), or similar laws of any other state;
(f) Is convicted of a second violation of s. 316.193, or a similar law of another state, within 3 years of a previous conviction of such section, or similar law of another state, even though the first violation may have occurred prior to the date on which the application was submitted;
(g) Is adjudicated an incapacitated person under s. 744.331, or similar laws of any other state; or
(h) Is committed to a mental institution under chapter 394, or similar laws of any other state.
So a license can be revoked in FL if the license holder suffers a physical infirmity, or develops mental problems.
Last I heard those were not crimes, but you just stated that Fl Lics are only revoked for a violation &/or a crime in your remarks above. So your statement is wrong.
Comment by JDFAR — December 21, 2007 @ 9:02 pm
As to an Ohio CHL being revoked at the discretion of the issuing Sheriff, it still shows on the stats as a revoked license.
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/article4069.html
Comment by JDFAR — December 21, 2007 @ 9:09 pm
Jade,
(Yawn)
I can’t wait for you to get your wish in the next general election, Hillary will give you everything you want.
How do you feel about that?
Comment by theirritablearchitect — December 23, 2007 @ 2:24 pm